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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hi,
<div>I responded below</div>
<div>Daureen<br>
<div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px; ">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div id="divRpF407929" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); direction: ltr; "><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Rdap [rdap-bounces@asis.org] on behalf of Fitzgerald, Jennifer [jmfitzgerald@noble.org]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 24, 2015 9:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Research Data, Access and Preservation<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rdap] Electronic Lab Notebooks<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "></div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I’m combining this lengthy response to both Daureen Nesdill and Katherine McNeill to reduce the number of outgoing emails. I appreciate your feedback.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">It’s not so much the space that we’re worried about over time, it’s the crowding of information that can be placed into a single ELN. When will it be enough? Also, generating backup copies can become a nightmare
over time if a notebook is large. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080">Space is an issue my researchers bring up. I just tell them of the options. Some of them already have TB of data on servers they have to access. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080"><br>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080">I do not understand "when will it be enough?" Because my researchers are in different disciplines I'm seeing first hand how differently each works. GLP are totally different. What needs to
be retained is different. LabArchives, like any other ELN is based on corporate, FDA, US Patent scenarios, in other word everything must be maintained, provenance/audit trails are mandatory, etc. This is not necessarily bad since it will address the ethics
issues. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080"><br>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080">If you are talking about backups of notebooks archived outside of LabArchives, I hear you. Researchers may have to develop policies on when and what to delete - records management. The data
will be in a repository with the pertinent information so it is not necessary to keep notebooks forever.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><u><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I was initially asked to assist in developing some best practices, but that faded into the background as everyone began doing their own thing...for now. We were fortunate in that a few of our principal investigators
showed a willingness in assisting others to get on board.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">I'm using somewhat the same method. The pioneering researchers using labarchives can demonstrate to their collaborators and colleagues within their departments. We are also introducing the
lab class version at the same time. My campus has a large medical research component so REDCap has already been adopted (security). We also have mLIMS and JAX foe mouse colony management and Quartzy for inventory of lab suppplies, etc.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Since the ELN is not geared for the storage of large datasets (as you know you’re limited with Lab Archives in terms of 250 MB for a single file), we still encourage the use of our network storage for many
things. We don’t necessarily want them starting manuscripts there and we do not encourage that they create a repository of collected research articles for their work in the ELN. It’s still their notebook. Instruments are mapped to internal network drives.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">During our initial discussions I let them know that Endnote, Zotoro, etc are useful - one of the researchers is going to try linking her Endnote into labarchives. We talk about decisions to
make before setting up a notebook.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">We initially began the process of reviewing notebooks in 2013. The research staff on our Data Management Committee (composed mostly of principal investigators and Computing Services staff) was not too keen
on the idea of going electronic initially, but you can’t really blame them when paper was the standard for so long. The major effort was researcher buy-in, because without it, the effort would be a dead one. In our case, our senior leadership wanted the
decision to be one that was either all in or all out. That type of involvement may be more realistic since we are a smaller institution. Slowly, the seven pilot groups came around and it was determined in late 2014 to move forward in 2015 with the adoption
of the ELN. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">I started in 2009-10 with some support from the VP for Research Office. I had to pull back a bit when the market changed. In May I received a small grant from my Library to start this pilot
project. I'm talking with university IT and Center for High Performance Computing about steps for a site license since it is not clear which will administer the software. VPR is still supportive and pushing this pilot. I can see LabArchives being a site license
in the future, but not the only ELN out there. The chemists are already saying since it does not support ChemDraw, they will not use it. If the campus is provided free access to use LabArchives I'm not expecting hordes of researchers signing up. The cost has
been an impediment, but the work of implementing the ELN is a much larger impediment. Next summer I'm planning on knocking on the doors of new faculty and get them when they are just setting up research projects.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366"><br>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">In our case, we’re trying to put an administrative spin on a product (Lab Archives) that doesn’t really have an administrative module for account management. I am the appointed person that assists someone
in setting up their account using their employee email to ensure that the appropriate permissions are applied to the said notebook. I make sure the principal investigator has ownership, an ELN Admin (aka me) has administrator access, and that the researcher
has the appropriate level of access. We know this is not foolproof with the product we are using, since users still have the ability to create their own notebooks. I am interested in seeing if anyone else has a similar approach.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">Interesting that you are the administrator. Each of my research groups have a PI and/or an administrator of their own. Why are you the administrator and what are your duties? I do not see my
position evolving into administrating for all the thousands of notebooks and accounts we can potentially have on this campus</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I typically name a notebook “Researcher Last Name Researcher First Name – Principal Investigator Last Name – Year Notebook Created.” (A larger university may need more identifying information. We have a little
more than 20 labs using the ELN.) This is really more for the principal investigator and myself and in my opinion, it’s better than naming a notebook by project when I have more than 160 of them to keep up with in my queue. Also, it’s a good naming convention
for historical matters. The folders within the ELN are typically organized chronologically by month with pages of entries in each or by project names. In some cases, research assistants have folders with the name of a postdoctoral fellow they provide support
to and only that postdoc has access to that folder in the research assistant’s notebook. When I assist someone in setting their ELN up, I also show them an actual researcher’s notebook. One particular principal investigator had given me permission in order
to do this with her staff’s notebooks.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">We name the account for the PI, then it is up to the research group to decide how the notebooks will be set up. I have notebooks set up by person, instrument (a core, not really research),
project and grant. Under that folders are created and they will be learning "metadata" and using tags to describe entries. For the researchers organizing notebooks by project also wanted them organized by grant. Projects can involve multiple grants and grants
can fund multiple projects. Tagging is being used to follow the grants.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">When researchers leave employment, our exit procedures require that anyone with a notebook sets an appointment up with me, so I can review the account and determine what they do/do not have access to. They
can take a copy of the notebook with them and I will ensure I have appropriate access to generate a backup copy for our historical records that will reside on our internal servers (for the PI and legal matters). At this point, the PI and I still have access
to the departing employees’ notebooks via our Lab Archives accounts…I’m not sure if this is a practice that will be feasible over time.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">We talk about when people leave, but not in any detail yet. I would suggest you have a conversation with your records management folks and have them assist you in developing policies on when
you can delete records. I'm on a state university campus and have state and federal record keeping rules. I'm not sure of the regulations you have to follow at a foundation.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">We’re trying to encourage only one notebook per person if at all possible. Ideally, they will go through me if a new one is needed. At least one group is using one notebook, but it is a service group unrelated
to research, so their usage may not the greatest example from a research lab’s standpoint. I also stress that I can assist in adding researchers to one another’s notebooks for collaborative purposes upon approval from the PI or appointed lab manager/member.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Either way, I’ve heard more positive than negative about the ELN.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">I've just started obtaining feedback from researchers. A few issues came up - not intuitive, Chrome not supporting JAVA, not having a laptop, work interfering with implementation.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I’m very curious to learn more about the progress goes at your institutions.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">My Library did provide me with a small grant, but that is the end of the support. I'm one of those data librarians being crushed between traditional librarian duties and my not-so-new duties.
I'm still attempting to work out how much time I can devote to this.</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366"><br>
</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#993366">Daureen</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Jennifer Fitzgerald</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"><br>
Data Curator, Library</span><span style="color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">
<hr size="2" width="350" noshade="" align="left" style="width:262.5pt; color:blue">
</span></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation<br>
2510 Sam Noble Parkway<br>
Ardmore, OK 73401<br>
Telephone 580.224.6268 | Fax 580.224.6265<br>
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.noble.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:blue">www.noble.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rdap [mailto:rdap-bounces@asis.org] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Katherine McNeill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 11:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Research Data, Access and Preservation<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rdap] Electronic Lab Notebooks</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">We are very interested in this as well. Here we (the Libraries) are just now embarking on a partnership with our IT department who have decided to try out an institutional license
and accompanying support model. One issue goal that has come up is to compile recommendations on good practice for using the software and we were planning on reaching out to other universities.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">All that is to say that we’re not in a position at the moment to give any advice but will be keen on exchanging such information going forward.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Sincerely,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Katherine McNeill</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom: 12pt; ">___________________________________<br>
<a href="http://cp.mcafee.com/d/k-Kr3x0qdEIczD1RT7SjtPoUQszzhOYeupdzzhOed7bPOr9IsqehNEVu7fc6NNEV76zAQszDbCN5lSkNgzYtfg1kaA3_U02rxkwv_00joVSOa91Z_HYyOCVtN7HTbFILIsCUC-YYNR4kRHFGTuhVkffGhBrwqrhdICQuKAT2zp2BEO8urhdw0PV42bsAfFOIFZW3ubhGX8_WoHq7Off9CUEqIn8lrxrW0HqiFM04SDssqekjobZ8Qg6BI5EqIqnjh0d7_qsqMBoQg1ni1Ew1Bp-gHkHgSO-rjTvd3TzbuuK" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">Katherine
McNeill</span></a><br>
Program Head, Data Management Services<br>
Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
<a href="mailto:mcneillh@mit.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">mcneillh@mit.edu</span></a> | 617-253-0787<span style="color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Rdap [<a href="mailto:rdap-bounces@asis.org" target="_blank">mailto:rdap-bounces@asis.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daureen Nesdill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Research Data, Access and Preservation<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rdap] Electronic Lab Notebooks</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">I have about 7 labs using (setting up to use) LabArchives. The purpose of this little experiment is to determine any issues that need to be addressed before a site license is considered
– and your question has already come up. By late spring 2016, I expect to have at least a draft version of best practices based on the issues that have come up.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Don’t forget notebooks created within LabArchives can be organized by projects, grants, people, instruments, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">One of my research groups was concerned about all the notebooks taking up too much server space. We have discussed that at the end of a research project (how this group is being
organized), each notebook can be downloaded and archived elsewhere (we now have BOX). This includes all the deletions that are never deleted. We also discussed that some of the past research projects will need to be referred to - research builds on research
– and they would have to take that into account. I’ve mentioned to LabArchives that researchers should be able to totally delete deletions at the end of the project and maintain the notebook within the system. This will open up server space. Intuition tells
me this would not be an easy fix.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Please, let us know what you end up doing</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Daureen
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Daureen Nesdill, MS, MLIS</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">Research Data Management Librarian</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">The Faculty Center @ the J. W. Marriott Library</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">University of Utah</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">801-585-5975</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:daureen.nesdill@utah.edu" target="_blank">daureen.nesdill@utah.edu</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D">ORCID
<a href="http://cp.mcafee.com/d/avndzhJ5xAsUeKU-OrKr76zAsqenxPP9IsqehNEVuujpdzzhOed7bMVVwSed78UQsCzAsVsS8GKOCa4vzFW0axkwv_00jsaA3_U02r7eShh8fLZvAmkTbK8ZuVtdBZzAT4TTDCeEyCJtdmXOfaxVZicHs3jqpJASzRQCUkr8kJ6h3Pq9I07mdF8s01OZXTbTLtALt5dMK_tBUT53lyV2Hsbvg5rile00CQXzzhOyr1vF6y0QJwJ3lziWq81E_Xjzm4H6y0aWgd40cHfO5qBq6SnPvXPU" target="_blank">
http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0126-5038</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rdap [<a href="mailto:rdap-bounces@asis.org" target="_blank">mailto:rdap-bounces@asis.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fitzgerald, Jennifer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rdap@mail.asis.org" target="_blank">rdap@mail.asis.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Rdap] Electronic Lab Notebooks</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Hello RDAP Members:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">I know some of you, but certainly not all of you, are at institutions that have adopted an electronic laboratory notebook. This year has been a transitional year for the Lab Archives ELN at the Noble Foundation.
At this point, less than 200 total employees will be using the ELN. (Our total employee body hovers right below 400.)
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">To anyone who can assist, I am curious as to what the guidelines are at your institutions regarding when it is time to create a new notebook. We currently have a committee in place that discusses data management
matters and they would be interested to know what others are doing, as well. Most of the users have their own notebooks that their respective principal investigator maintains ownership of. Obviously, more can be included with the ELN versus a traditional
paper notebook. It seems that over time, even an ELN would get overloaded with information. Since our use is still somewhat in its infancy, I’m curious as to what others are doing.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">Thank you.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Jennifer Fitzgerald</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"><br>
Data Curator, Library</span><span style="color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation<br>
2510 Sam Noble Parkway<br>
Ardmore, OK 73401<br>
Telephone 580.224.6268 | Fax 580.224.6265<br>
</span><a href="http://www.noble.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:blue">www.noble.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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